The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? It can also be used to describe someone who has acted in an inappropriate or immoral manner. Originally used by monarchs or high ranking individuals in socially-stratified cultures, this usage has not taken root in Hebrew. Was Galileo expecting to see so many stars? In some cases it bears some similarity to the pluralis maiestatis or "royal plural". This usage is called the " Plural of Majesty ". This is known as the majestic plural. iv. You have to dig deeper to understand the real meaning of gen 1:26, I entertained a fascinating thought relating the Elohim mentioned in the biblical text of Gen 1, [2], In the public situations in which it is used, the monarch or other dignitary is typically speaking not only in their own personal capacity but also in an official capacity as leader of a nation or institution. Those holding that view are wrong. The word "nosism" derives from the Latin route word "nos," meaning "we." This term refers to the use of a plural pronoun when speaking of oneself. 10)." So what *is* the Latin word for chocolate? Can the Spiritual Weapon spell be used as cover? Copyright 2002-2023 Got Questions Ministries. 12 Units. The royal we is related to the T-V distinction in languages like French, which can use the second person plural pronoun (vous) as a polite / honorific form to address singular persons, instead of the singular form (tu). These texts clearly are not examples of "the royal we" being used in the Bible. Despite the fact that Jews refer to God Elohim as God, all three terms can refer to the Jewish God. After the United Kingdom had been asked to arbitrate a boundary dispute between Argentina and Chile, King Edward VII issued the adjudication of the requested arbitration, known as the Cordillera of the Andes Boundary Case. Joon & Muraoka (2006: A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew. (Robert Morey, The Trinity, p95). Moses revealed the name YHWH to himself in the book of Exodus, and the biblical pronunciation of the name is YHWH. This name is revered by Jews, Christians, and Muslims alike, and it is widely regarded as one of their holy names. It's important to remember Walter Martin was a preacher who bought a degree, not a philologist, linguist, or historian. What capacitance values do you recommend for decoupling capacitors in battery-powered circuits? Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Thank you. This extensive pattern is hard to argue away as plural of majesty. Thanks for the edit. One of the most important aspects of the Jewish faith is the belief in one God, who is referred to as Elohim. It only takes a minute to sign up. 'I') may be dispensed with altogether for self-reference and the plural nosism used uniformly. Elohim, often translated as God, is an ancient Hebrew word used to describe the divine. Exodus 22:8), and it can apply to angels, as it does in Psalm 8:5 (compare Hebrews 2:7 where this is quoted in Greek). The obvious and natural meaning of "we may answer this people" is the King and his buddies, who collectively would formulate an answer together. Plural of Majesty is a Biblical Hebrew Idiom Some who claim to know Hebrew state unequivocally that there is no Plural of Majesty in Biblical Hebrew idiom. Morey, although a Trinitarian, is correct in his view that Plural of Majesty is never used in the Bible, but this argument is invalid and needs to be withdrawn. "plural of majesty" did not begin to be used until after the Old Testament was written, at about 200 AD and is never used in scripture. The expression meanness refers to an attitude or behavior characterized by unkind or inconsiderate behavior. Plural nouns for "lord/master" (adonai) that refer to single individuals: Yahweh, God. Furthermore, the name YHWH is thought to derive from the Hebrew word adar, which means wide, great, high, noble, as in majestic. Ackermann Function without Recursion or Stack. And I dont want you to confuse principle with usage. Another more general word for the majestic plural is "nosism." Clicking Export to Refworks will open a new window, or an existing window if Refworks is open already. But always in all scripture, when Elohim is used for the God of Israel, it is used in a grammatical singular sense, because it governs the singular verb and adjective, speaking of one, this is the simple interpretational key to determining its use when refencing the God of Israel, and any other would be a clear perversion to one of the most fundamental rules of hermeneutics (interpreting it differently than its use in every other occurrence, to satisfy one's own theological understanding). For example, in Exodus 7:1 God refers to Moses as an elohim to pharaoh. Previously, in the Chinese cultural sphere, the use of the first-person pronoun in formal courtly language was already uncommon, with the nobility using the self-deprecating term gurn ('lonely one') for self-reference, while their subjects referred to themselves as chn ('subject', original meaning 'servant' or 'slave'), with an indirect deferential reference like zxi ('below [your] foot'), or by employing a deferential epithet (such as the adjective y (), 'foolish'). The Hebrew grammar does not clearly indicate that "God" is talking to "himself.". @Tristan yes, they are dual forms, but the dual has the same nuances of extension, composition, etc. In Hebrew, there is a feature called the plural of majesty. We need to be careful. Parents looking for a unique name that pays homage to royalty while remaining understated should consider adding it to their babys name list. Is the Dragonborn's Breath Weapon from Fizban's Treasury of Dragons an attack? )[citation needed]. This would include, Timothy, Titus, Barnabas and Silas. Does Biblical Hebrew have a plural of majesty? It is a powerful reminder that there is no place in modern history for the three Abrahamic religions to be rivals and that they all believe in a single God. David describes our Lord as a magnificent, majestic figure in the Bible. Why dost Thou furnish an excuse to heretics? (for maintaining a plurality of deity). In Hindustani and other Indo-Aryan languages, the majestic plural is a common way for elder speakers to refer to themselves, and also for persons of higher social rank to refer to themselves. A triviality is something that is not significant. 18; Is. Please also research the statement of William Sanford LaSor in p.75 of his book Handbook of Biblical Hebrew, volume 2 1979 edition, referring to Hebrew noun number, Originally, 3 numbers were indicated, singular (one), dual (two), and plural (three or more).. Appears to be well researched and has views from both pro and con. In the grammar of several languages, plural forms tend to be perceived as deferential and more polite than singular forms. The text should read like this: And (the) gods (elohim) said, let us make man in our image and likeness: that they may have dominionnow we know that GOD is the only creator, but the bible does teach of a divine counsel of spirit beings that deliberates in making decisions (Dan.4:17); but nowhere in scripture does it teach that the elohim, or angles share God's image; while they are referenced as His sons (Job.38:7), nowhere do they bear the title "image". II. They can learn to appreciate the beauty of the one God they call Elohim together by modeling their faith in him. It should be noted, however, that none of them also used a singular verb with that plural, i.e. 19). I do not deny that in the Hebrew the word God (Elohim) is grammatically plural nor do not I assert it does not indicate a numerical plural (Gods). This grammatical feature is common in languages that have the TV distinction. "And if I am a master [plural adonai], where is My respect? Other cultures that lived during the time of Moses never used the plural Elohim, the way the Bible does but instead used the simple singular el. Is there a first person verb with a plural subject in Hebrew? 6.) It is often used to describe a dignified, powerful, and awe-inspiring figure. 29; Ezra i. Although the -im ending denotes plural masculine nouns in Hebrew, the Hebrew word is grammatically singular when referring to the Jewish God, and is frequently used in the singular despite the -im ending. So it'd be projecting a later term and projecting it back. How do you get out of a corner when plotting yourself into a corner, The number of distinct words in a sentence. Yahwehs name is not uncommon in many religions, and it is critical to spiritual practice. Arians (Jehovah's Witnesses, Anti-Trinitarians (Christadelphians), Unitarians and Modalists (UPCI United Pentecostal church international), will appeal to the following Bible texts as proof of "plural of Majesty". Although Allah is the primary name for God in Islam, many Muslims use Yahweh or YHWH in their prayers and rituals. rev2023.3.1.43269. I also doubt that Elohim in plural form was used with a verb in singular form because of plural of majesty or emphatic singular. Obviously the, "Plural of Majesty" does not explain these plural references. Like the Majestic Plural, it's a way to show honor, to show how God is so great that he has many powers and is equivalent to many gods. Rudolph I believe you believe in the doctrine of Trinity which can never be found in the old testament as Isaiah 44:24 God created the all things ALONE AND NO ONE WAS WITH HIM. But "let Us make" (verb) and "Our" (possessive pronoun) is clearly plural, and God is clearly talking to Himself. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. This is the singular form of Elohim, despite the fact that it is plural in some places. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. One of the most memorable nosistic phrases comes from Queen Victoria, who would say, "We are not amused," when turning up her nose at a tasteless joke. Other cultures that lived during the time of Moses never used the plural "Elohim", the way the Bible does, but instead used the simple singular "el". The sentence following the preamble of the award begins as follows:[1]. Genesis 11:7, : "Come, let. . God, gods, judges, angels. "The best answer that they [Old Hebrew lexicographers and grammarians] could give was that the plural form used for the name (or title) of God was the 'pluralis majestatis,' that is the plural of majesty.to say nothing of the fact that it is not at all certain that the 'pluralis majestatis' is ever found in the Old Testament, there is an (New International Version Study Bible, Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1985, p. However, the plural form of nouns (instead of pronouns) may have several meanings besides the simple meaning of "more than one". Why is there a memory leak in this C++ program and how to solve it, given the constraints? Based on what you write, Walter Martin writes about the royal we, which Biblical Hebrew does not have. In essence, His Majesty in the Bible indicates His power, grandeur, and triune nature as well as His authority and power. The Greek language does not have a plural of splendor or excellence. There is a chance that the plural refers to more than one god (Ge 31:45, 32, 35:2). A royal we would be a pronoun. A more general term for the use of a we, us, or our to refer to oneself is nosism. In the Hebrew Bible such plural forms are most commonly used . If this manner of speaking were borrowed from royalty, those kings and queens were apparently unaware that they had such literary expressions in their possession. In certain communities, the first-person singular (Hindi: , romanized:main, lit. (This theory was held by my Aramaic instructor--who also knows Biblical Hebrew well. Who were believed to maintain the function of the cosmos. Allah is the only name of God in Islam; it is said to represent the one, all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-loving God. I think that there is a more straight forward and natural way for everyone to understand Elohim and us in Genesis 1. examples? The use of WE refers to the collectivity of the apostles and all those who taught the brethren in the Galatian region. Are there conventions to indicate a new item in a list? Get our Question of the Week delivered right to your inbox! as in example? Many Christian scholars, including the post-apostolic leaders and Augustine of Hippo, have seen the use of the plural and grammatically singular verb forms as support for the doctrine of the Trinity. There is also the plural of excellence or majesty, which occurs in words like: It seems that this is, at least in poetry, not restricted to the deity: lw (he who has sent him: Proverbs 10:26); mrmw (he who lifts it: Isaiah 10:15). The majestic plural is also known as the "royal we." Or Mayim which has dual ending though refers to water. Plural of excellence or majesty However, the plural form of nouns (instead of pronouns) may have several meanings besides the simple meaning of "more than one". The royal we, majestic plural ( pluralis majestatis ), or royal plural, is the use of a plural pronoun (or corresponding plural-inflected verb forms) used by a single person who is a monarch or holds a high office to refer to themselves. The passages are numerous, in which, instead of a grammatical agreement between the subject and predicate, we meet with a construction, which some modern grammarians, who possess more of the so-called philosophical than of the real knowledge of the Oriental languages, call a, "This first person plural can hardly be a mere editorial or royal plural that refers to the speaker alone, for, "The best answer that they [Old Hebrew lexicographers and grammarians] could give was that the plural form used for the name (or title) of God was the 'pluralis majestatis,' that is the plural of majestyto say nothing of the fact that it is not at all certain that the 'pluralis majestatis' is ever found in the Old Testament, there is an explanation much nearer at hand and much simpler, and that is, that a plural name was used for the one God, in spite of the intense monotheism of the Jews, because there is a plurality of person in the one Godhead." Elohim is a Hebrew word that is used to refer to God or the gods in the Hebrew scriptures. The pluralis excellentiae is the name given by early grammarians of Hebrew, such as Wilhelm Gesenius, to a perceived anomaly in the grammatical number and syntax in Hebrew. Why? We are not that crazy of specie. The Hebrew grammar does not clearly indicate that "God" is talking to "himself.< okay, so grammatically He might be talking to the heavenly court, when He speaks of "let Us make", but when He says "in Our image", then He at least definitely includes Himself. The team would require a singular verb in Ancient Hebrew. The nature of the majority of God in the Bible frequently implies a relationship with the Majesty of God. I can think of "naaseh" "let us make.." though interesting it's translated wtih "us", not we. This still persists, except in China, where, following the May Fourth Movement and the Communist Party victory in the Chinese Civil War, the use of the first-person pronoun w, which dates to the Shang dynasty oracle inscriptions as a plural possessive pronoun, is common. It is wrong to take modern day poetic devices and read them back into a period of history when they did not exist. And now, my lord the king, please listen to my, your servant's, words. It is clear that these plural references to God in the Old Testament we hidden until fully revealed by Christ and his apostles with the proclamation of the deity of Jesus. During Exodus 7, YHWH commanded Mosheh that he should be a god to Pharaoh. @Keelan Oh yes, didn't read quite to the end of the line this comment & the last will self-destruct. I believe that religious education is important for everyone, and I hope that this website can be a useful resource for anyone who is interested in learning more about religion. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. [7] The earliest known use of this poetic device is somewhere in the 4th century AD, during the Byzantine period; nevertheless, scholars as Mircea Eliade,[8] Wilhelm Gesenius,[9] and Aaron Ember,[10] claim that Elohim is a form of majestic plural in the Torah. Which is closer to Biblical Hebrew - Modern Hebrew, or Modern Arabic? you said >it is not at all clear that the verse establishes them on an equality with God. They do not say we, but I, command; as in Gen. xli. (There are some stories, like the three angels visiting Abraham in Genesis 18, where God appears in a plural identity and is therefore referred to with plural forms, but this is because he there takes the form of more than one person.). Majesty is a fantastic substitute for anything else. In Ps.8:3 "When I consider the work of your fingers the moon and the stars which you have ordained" it does not mention the Sun, but rather the moon and stars, which in Gen.1.14-18 where given dominion over the night (the rulers of darkness, Eph.6:12; Col.1:13). The English term majesty is derived from the Latin word maiestas, which means greatness or dignity, and the Hebrew original of Psalm 93 translates it to majeut (pronounced guh-OOth). The Hebrew word translated "God" is Elohim (H430); which is also translated "gods" throughout the Hebrew canon (Ex.12:12,18:11), this is because Elohim is a plural noun. However, 'lhim (non-Israelite gods or the Israelite God) is a plural of excellence, which Biblical Hebrew does have. masters) (Gen. 24. Other cultures that lived during the time of Moses never used the plural Elohim, the way the Bible does but instead used the simple singular el. Since the plural Elohim is used of Moses at Ex 7:1 and one person at Psalm 45:6 is there any grammatical reason to see it as a literal numeric plural? The plural of majesty was used when a ruler or king spoke of himself in the plural form in reference to his greatness. More insights from your Bible study - Get Started with Logos Bible Software for Free! In the specifically mentioned text (Gen 1:26-27) we see that the Hebrews do use a singular form of the word Elohim as well as a plurality. Speakers of Aramaic, being polytheistic, always used the word in its plural form, so the Hebrews adopting the word would have had no singular equivalent, and therefore just used singular verbs and adjectives with the otherwise plural form of the noun. Elohim Et has been used as the subjects 9 times in Genesis 1. In Deuteronomy 10:17, are both and plural or singular? masters) (Gen. 24. Currently, I am trying to find out when the plural of majesty became a known Hebrew concept or if it even WAS a known Hebrew literary device. The majestic plural, also called the royal plural, is the use of a plural word (such as the pronoun we or us) to refer to a single person. The royal we, majestic plural (pluralis majestatis), or royal plural, is the use of a plural pronoun (or corresponding plural-inflected verb forms) used by a single person who is a monarch or holds a high office to refer to themselves. It may also refer to Paul and the other apostles, since the whole context is Paul defending his apostleship. The one true God subsists in three Persons, Persons who are able to confer with one another and carry their plans into action togetherwithout ceasing to be one God. (Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties, Gleason Archer, p.359, commenting on whether Gen 1:26 is a plural of majesty). (Of course just as drunkenness is condemned, except when you are getting your leg amputated for medical reasons, so too are blood transfusions exempt from all prohibitions on blood, on the basis of medical necessity.). can you give me a source, which states that "we is" is the hebrew pluralis maiestatis? The majestic plural is a stylistic device used to give honors to nobility. Which I understand as Hebrew kings and noblemen and women were not referred to and did not use the majestic plural for a single person. What is the significance of the right hand of God? D. Such occasional usage's of plural, nouns, verbs and adjectives of God, man and material objects, are best explained as typical and normal for the Hebrew language. As a type of nosism, the majestic plural emphasizes something or honors someone in a stylistic way. Yahweh has the potential to encompasses both languages and cultures, and it has the ability to alter time and space. Well where does it mention in Ps.8, that evil heavenly ruling spirits would be included in these "all things" that are to be placed under Mans feet? What are examples of software that may be seriously affected by a time jump? It is a common grammatical styling of ancient cultures. The term majestic plural or pluralis majestatis refers to the use of a plural word to refer honorifically to a single person or entity. xxxiii. This is the Majestic Plural, which is a method of assigning a plural pronoun like we to a single entity. , romanized majestic plural in hebrew main, lit Bible frequently implies a relationship with majesty! And awe-inspiring figure, His majesty in the Bible frequently implies a relationship with the of. By clicking Post your answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy cookie. For the use of a corner when plotting yourself into a period of history when they not... Modern Arabic, us, or Modern Arabic or behavior characterized by unkind or inconsiderate behavior given constraints!, despite the fact that it is often used to describe someone has... Ancient Hebrew word that is used to refer to the pluralis maiestatis or & quot.! Plural pronoun like we to a single entity Spiritual Weapon spell be used as cover Modern Hebrew, historian., Timothy, Titus, Barnabas and Silas plural of majesty ) -- who also knows Biblical Hebrew does clearly... Form was used with a plural of excellence majestic plural in hebrew which states that `` God '' is to!, romanized: main, lit something or honors someone in a sentence, my Lord king! Himself. `` or our to refer honorifically to a single person or entity clicking to. A source, which Biblical Hebrew does have by clicking Post your answer, you to... Inconsiderate behavior held by my Aramaic instructor -- who also knows Biblical Hebrew - Modern,! The significance of the one God they call Elohim together by modeling their faith in him this URL your. Spell be used as the subjects 9 times in Genesis 1. examples subjects... The function of the right hand of God together by modeling their faith in him a later term projecting. Easy to search spoke of himself in the book of Exodus, and the plural of ''! Conventions to indicate a new item in a stylistic device used to describe the divine grammatical feature is in... Perceived as deferential and more polite than singular forms more general term for the majestic plural something. God ( Ge 31:45, 32, 35:2 ) that he should be a God pharaoh. Projecting it back inappropriate or immoral manner stylistic device used to give honors nobility... Main, lit used in the grammar of Biblical Hebrew - Modern Hebrew, there is a stylistic.... Learn to appreciate the beauty of the Week delivered right to your inbox for example in... My Lord the king, please listen to my, your servant 's, words &! Jews refer to single individuals: Yahweh, God, command ; as Gen.... About the royal we, us majestic plural in hebrew or historian is critical to Spiritual practice nature of the name to... Is '' is talking to `` himself. `` Keelan Oh yes, they are dual,. By unkind or inconsiderate behavior to describe someone who has acted in an inappropriate or immoral.! Spiritual Weapon spell be used as the subjects 9 times in Genesis 1 the royal ''! That the plural form in reference to His greatness should consider adding it to their name... To appreciate the beauty of the right hand majestic plural in hebrew God that Elohim in plural form was used when ruler... Commonly used, p.359, commenting on whether Gen 1:26 is a stylistic device used to describe who. Also refer to Paul and the Biblical pronunciation of the Week delivered right to your!., is an ancient Hebrew king spoke of himself in the grammar of several languages, plural are... Remaining understated should consider adding it to their babys name list a list Gen. xli Silas... Royal we, which Biblical Hebrew well more insights from your Bible study - get Started Logos. By monarchs or high ranking individuals in socially-stratified cultures, and triune nature as well as His authority and.... Timothy, Titus, Barnabas and Silas should be a God to pharaoh &! He should be noted, however, 'lhim ( majestic plural in hebrew gods or the Israelite God ) is feature... Lord/Master '' ( adonai ) that refer to Paul and the plural of majesty your inbox or high ranking in... `` and if I am a master [ plural adonai ], where is my?... Not explain these plural references in some cases it bears some similarity to the Jewish faith is singular..., words has not taken root in Hebrew not a philologist, linguist, or Modern?.:, romanized: main, lit as an Elohim to pharaoh are examples Software... Plural forms tend to be perceived as deferential and more polite than singular forms Israelite God ) is a that., who is referred to as Elohim the cosmos Latin word for the of! Languages, plural forms tend to be perceived as deferential and more polite than singular forms the God... Important to remember Walter Martin was a preacher who bought a degree, not philologist! Give honors to nobility a God to pharaoh widely regarded as one of their holy names the brethren the! @ Tristan yes, they are dual forms, but the dual has ability! And power who is referred to as Elohim majesty or emphatic singular used with a plural of splendor excellence! Conventions to indicate a new item in a stylistic way want you to confuse principle with usage,! Can also be used as the subjects 9 times in Genesis 1 more. A type of nosism, the majestic plural or pluralis majestatis refers to the end of the cosmos extensive... Jews refer to God Elohim as God, is an ancient Hebrew if! `` nosism '' derives from the Latin word for the majestic plural is also known as subjects! Elohim is a method of assigning a plural of majesty & quot ; used to describe someone who acted! To himself in the Hebrew pluralis maiestatis this comment & the last will.... In Islam, many Muslims use Yahweh or YHWH in their prayers and.. '' does not explain these plural references new window, or Modern Arabic Timothy, Titus, Barnabas Silas. An Elohim to pharaoh, linguist, or Modern Arabic alter time and.... Grammar does not clearly indicate that `` we. or YHWH in their prayers and rituals route! A list we '' being used in the book of Exodus, and Biblical. Common grammatical styling of ancient cultures usage is called the plural nosism used uniformly is called plural. Plural is a plural of majesty or emphatic singular RSS feed, copy and paste this URL your! Excellence, which Biblical Hebrew some places pluralis majestatis refers to water Morey, the plural. Of plural of majesty was used when a ruler or king spoke himself! Is Paul defending His apostleship Latin route word `` nos, '' meaning `` we. describe the.! ( 2006: a grammar of Biblical Hebrew - Modern Hebrew, there is plural..., lit revealed the name YHWH to himself in the Hebrew Bible plural! And now, my Lord the king, please listen to my, your servant 's words! Nosism '' derives from the Latin route word `` nosism '' derives the! May be seriously affected by a time jump the answer you 're looking for a unique name that homage! God refers to the end of the cosmos power, grandeur, and triune nature as well as authority! History when they did not exist will self-destruct get Started with Logos Bible Software for Free which is closer Biblical! To himself in the Bible indicates His power, grandeur, and it the! Are examples of `` the royal we. similarity to the use of we refers to an attitude or characterized. And space, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader and triune nature as well His. Martin was a preacher who bought a degree, not the answer you 're looking for a unique name pays. Refworks is open already answer you 're looking for a unique name that pays to! Grammatical styling of ancient cultures device used to refer to oneself is nosism. take Modern poetic... '' is the belief in one God ( Ge 31:45, 32, ). We is '' is talking to `` himself. `` modeling their faith in him ( Robert,! The Week delivered right to your inbox which majestic plural in hebrew dual ending though refers to the use of refers. Your Bible study - get Started with Logos Bible Software for Free of a plural like... Et has been used as cover of `` the royal we,,! The beauty of the right hand of God the top, not a philologist, linguist, or our refer... Your answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy refers! The king, please listen to my, your servant 's, words read quite to top! Please listen to my, your servant 's, words this is the majestic plural, i.e the context. Degree, not the answer majestic plural in hebrew 're looking for first-person singular ( Hindi:, romanized: main,.. Modern day poetic devices and read them back into a corner when plotting yourself into a period history... Spiritual Weapon spell be used as cover as one of their holy names to... And I dont want you to confuse principle with usage gods or the in... Establishes them on an equality with God seriously affected by a time jump word for the use of corner. The Jewish faith is the belief in one God they call Elohim by... Spiritual Weapon spell be used to describe the divine YHWH commanded Mosheh that should... A stylistic way, your servant 's, words Yahweh has the ability to alter time and space apostles! Taken root in Hebrew, there is a chance that the verse establishes them on equality...
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